Soli Lazarus: 0:44

There's such an easy trick, you use humour, you use distraction and you give children this opportunity to feel amazing, you know, feel special feel the champion of something, punishments don't work. Why would a punishment mean that you can be more organised? Or why would a punishment mean that you can't shout out and answer because you know it? You know, we need to use different techniques and strategies in the classroom and in home to support our children rather than squash them.

Simon Currigan: 1:12

Welcome to the school behaviour secrets podcast. I'm your host, Simon Currigan. My co host is Emma Shackleton and we're obsessed with helping teachers, school leaders, parents, and of course students. When classroom behaviour gets in the way of success. We're going to share the tried and tested secrets to classroom management, behavioural Special Needs, whole school strategy and more all with the aim of helping your students reach their true potential. Plus, we'll be letting you eavesdrop on our conversations with thought leaders from around the world. So you'll get to hear their latest evidence based strategies before anyone else. This is the school behaviour secrets podcast. Hi there. Simon Currigan here from the school behaviour secrets podcast How you doing? This is the podcast about SEMH and classroom behaviour that on paper looked like a bad idea but in practice actually turned out to be a travesty. Joining me today as ever is my co host Emma Shackleton. Hi, Emma.

Emma Shackleton: 2:09

Hi, Simon, a travesty?

Simon Currigan: 2:11

But, I've heard it called worse. Read the reviews. I'd like to open today's podcast by asking you a quick question.

Emma Shackleton: 2:18

Go on then,

Simon Currigan: 2:19

if you could develop a superpower, what would it be?

Emma Shackleton: 2:22

Any superpower? Well, the first thing that springs to mind is the ability to fly. As I think that that would cut down on a lot of travel time and free me up to do other things. Go on then what's the relevance to today's episode?

Simon Currigan: 2:36

Well, today I'm interviewing Soli Lazarus, who's on a mission to promote the positive side of ADHD and she wants kids with ADHD, and their parents and teachers to see its advantages, not just the challenges, and she's even written a book called ADHD is our superpower. And today we're going to look at how people perceive ADHD, her personal experiences as a parent and teacher, and she's going to give us strategies and ideas for working with pupils with the condition

Emma Shackleton: 3:07

Sounds good. But before we press play on that interview, I've got a quick favour to ask. After you've listened to the podcast today. If you find it useful or valuable, don't keep it to yourself. Please share it with three friends or colleagues who you know would benefit. And don't forget, if you're one of our 1000s of new followers to the podcast, you can always go back to the beginning and listen to previous episodes too. And now here's Simon's interview with Soli.

Simon Currigan: 3:36

Today, I'd like to welcome Soli Lazarus to the show. Soli has 30 years experience as a mainstream primary teacher and SENCO before leaving teaching in 2018. Now she's the author of ADHD is our superpower, a book aimed at primary age children that promotes the positive side of ADHD. She's also set up The Together Club, an online membership to support families around the topic, and provide schools, parents and charities with training and talks. She is the author of a regular blog and podcast and runs a thriving Facebook group. Not only that, but her own adult son has ADHD. So she's got first hand experience of living with what she describes as all the fun, the unpredictability, the chaos and the spontaneity that involves. And she says she's on a mission to bust the stigma surrounding ADHD. Soli, welcome to the show.

Soli Lazarus: 4:30

Thank you very much. Gosh, you know, when somebody reads it back that does sound like I'm terribly busy. Thank you. Yeah, honestly, ADHD is my passion. And yeah, I'm on this little crusade to bust the stigma. So thank you for asking me.

Simon Currigan: 4:45

We're very excited to have you here. So let's start on that topic. I mean, you talk a lot about busting the stigma of ADHD. What would you say is the biggest misconception people have about people who have ADHD?

Soli Lazarus: 4:59

So that is such a great question. And when I do my training to teachers in schools, I almost start off with that premise of let's smash what you think ADHD is about because ADHD has had such a bad press and over the years, the misconception is it's naughty boys running around the classroom causing chaos when in actual fact, it's so much more hopefully we're going to touch on some of the things in this interview. But we now know that an ADHD brain is functioning in such a different way to somebody who doesn't have ADHD and that causes this difficulty with focus and concentration but it also causes difficulty with regulating emotions. It also causes difficulty with possibly friendships or sensory input or sensory overwhelm, so that it's so multifaceted that if we just say, Oh, it's naughty boys, and you've just got to be strict and punish them, we're doing a disservice to all those people who have ADHD who has struggled big time. And if we don't understand what it is in the first place, we don't have a chance to support and help them. So it's really educating and understanding what we're talking about.

Simon Currigan: 6:13

Where do you think those misconceptions have come from over the years?

Soli Lazarus: 6:17

Oh, I don't know. It could just be this whole thing of not really understanding, not talking about it, maybe maybe linking ADHD Oh, that little lad's got ADHD, he can't keep still, or people saying, Oh, yes, my son can't concentrate he's a little bit ADHD as well, which is like saying, You're a little bit blind, you know, you can't be a little bit of something you either are or you're not. And ADHD, we know through MRI scans that an ADHD brain is functioning differently, and ADH brain looks different. And also, I think that's a good question. Where does that misconception come from? I think so many adults now once their children are being diagnosed, or they're discussing or talking about ADHD, suddenly realise, wow, you're just talking about my life, my missed opportunities, my wasted experiences, my feelings of rejection, all these layers that ADHD bring people in are recognising. So it's not like, Oh, we're over diagnosing. We're not we're now just understanding what we're looking for. And many adults have gone through their whole lives thinking, I've not been good enough. I've lost friendships, I've had failed relationships, I haven't been able to keep a job, I start one project, don't finish it and move on to another project. These are all red flags for ADHD. So it's not that it suddenly appeared. And you know, where did this come from? It's always been there. But because we now are understanding it a little bit better, we can now have empathy and help people and support people in a better way.

Simon Currigan: 7:53

It sounds like those people might experience a lot of self blame. That's misplaced.

Soli Lazarus: 7:57

Yeah.

Simon Currigan: 7:58

Because of those misconceptions of other people and themselves.

Soli Lazarus: 8:00

Yeah, exactly. I speak to adults all the time, because I support families. So I'm speaking to adults. And I always, once we start talking about the child, I'll say, does anything that we're talking about resonate with anybody else in the family? And you know, I don't want to start pointing my finger immediately and say, You know what, I think you've got ADHD. But quite often, one of the parents will say, you're describing my life, people have grown up with blame, and shame and not feeling good enough. And what's wrong with me? And why can everybody else do this? Not me. So our kids actually are in an amazing, fortunate situation that we now understand. And we now can help them and we can now give them a voice. And we can now say, You're not an idiot. You're not stupid, you're not lazy. You're not deliberately causing trouble, you're not going out of your way to wind a teacher up. This is just how your brain is working. So it's not an excuse. But it's a reason. And yeah, we can just sort of try and empower our young people.

Simon Currigan: 9:03

As we said in the intro, your son, who is an adult now is diagnosed with ADHD, can you tell us a little bit about the story of how you reach that diagnosis, and how you felt about it when it happened?

Soli Lazarus: 9:14

So that's really interesting. So he's 34. So when he was little, and we went to play groups, and child minders and nursery I was always called aside and asked to take him out, or a music group or a swimming group, you know, there was always something not quite right really difficult. He got into trouble at school. He couldn't read. I mean, he was eight and he couldn't read. So one, I remember it very, very clearly, a local newspaper popped through my door. That was the day where there was local newspapers. So remember, there's no internet at this point. And there was an article written by Andrea Bilbao, who is a big cheese in ADHD world now. But back then she was just starting. And she wrote about ADHD. And I read this article, and I just thought, well, this is my son, this is what is happening. So from that point, I then went to the GP and then he then got diagnosed when he was eight. And for me how I felt, I remember going into the school and knocking on the staff room door, and the teacher opened the door and I said, I've got some fantastic news. My son's got ADHD, because to me, it was the answer. I wasn't a bad parent. I wasn't doing anything particularly wrong. I wasn't, you know, it's really lonely for me at that point, because nobody was talking about anything about mental health or ADHD or neurodiversity, and I just thought, Well, why has he not got any friends? Why is he not getting invited to birthday parties? Why is he lonely? Why am I lonely? Because parents didn't invite me either. Because obviously, I was such a bad parent, I couldn't control my child. So for me getting that diagnosis was a validation that I see we have to just do it differently.

Simon Currigan: 11:05

How did it impact then on your experience as a mainstream teacher and Senko, because you're in an interesting position, being on both sides of the fence as it were. You're a parent and teacher, and I was a teacher at that time. And the information for teachers really wasn't out there about ADHD or autism or any of these things. Really. How did that affect you from both sides of the coin, so to speak?

Soli Lazarus: 11:27

So Simon, let me just tell you something really tragic that when I do teacher training, I asked the youngest member of staff, did you have specific ADHD training? And I would say almost certainly, they either say no, this is now this is 2022. This is now they either say no. Or they'll say, Well, we did it as part of the Special Needs Unit. How long did that last a day, maybe a week? You know, it's given so little even today. That is the problem. So your question, how did it impact my teaching? The very weird thing is when I taught I always got those kids who were a little bit Sparky and I liked them. I liked the ones who jumped up and gave an answer. I like the ones who just had a little bit more. So I naturally sort of got them. Then when I got the diagnosis for David, I sorted then started looking at the well Oh, I see now what's happening here with these other children. And then I started sort of figure out again, remember, there's still no Facebook or online support or anything. So I sort of was trying to figure out the best way to help David. And that sort of then reflected in my teaching that things just had to be quick and sharp and interesting and fun. And the pace had to be quicker, and make them feel special. There's one tip I would say to parents or teachers, this is such an easy trick. You use humour, you use distraction, and you give children this opportunity to feel amazing, you know, feel special, feel the champion of something, punishments don't work. Why would a punishment mean that you can be more organised? Or why would a punishment mean that you can't shout out an answer because you know it, you know, we need to use different techniques and strategies in the classroom and in home to support our children rather than squash them.

Simon Currigan: 13:20

I always feel that punishments assume there's an element of choice about the behaviour.

Soli Lazarus: 13:25

Yes.

Simon Currigan: 13:25

When you're dealing with a different type of behaviour, because of the way the brain is wired. Like you say, just punishing someone isn't going to help them develop those organisational skills, if the way their brain is wired means it's so much harder, naturally to be organised.

Soli Lazarus: 13:40

Yes, I love that thing, you know that you say about choice. I mean, the amount of times I have parents contacting me and they've stood with a teacher and the teacher is wagging their fingers. And it's, well, they've chosen the wrong thing to do this afternoon. And again, that's coming from a point where you think you've got a choice whether to need to move or you've got a choice whether this amazing idea just needs to blurt out your mouth, there is no choice to we have to facilitate that, you know, those things that our children need.

Simon Currigan: 14:10

What was the positive side of the diagnosis from your son's perspective, at that time?

Soli Lazarus: 14:14

I think just as I said, for validating why he behaves like he behaved for himself, as well as for us that he's not naughty, you know, he's not deliberately going out of his way to wind anybody up or break up a friendship or break up a game or or be revolting the and that none of that, you know, my son lights up a room when he comes in, you know, that he has the energy from within to engage and be funny and and that was all being squashed out of him. But then sort of once that diagnosis, it's almost like giving permission. But of course, that's like you are, you know, and the more we read and educate ourselves, what our children can achieve, and can do you know, the more we can facilitate that

Simon Currigan: 15:02

You've got over 30 years of experience of working with kids with ADHD and their families, what do you think's been the biggest changes over that time?

Soli Lazarus: 15:08

I think kindness and understanding for difference. When I first started teaching, and there wasn't even the national curriculum, there was this idea that everybody should be doing the same thing. And then when the national curriculum came in, then everybody should be achieving the same level or it's math. So we're all doing maths. Whereas I think over the years, we've been more creative. Teachers have been allowed to teach in a more creative way. Unfortunately, I think now we're going back to that, almost three R's you know that we have to throw in all this effort to get to a certain standard, and that's because of SATs and GCSEs, and league tables and comparing schools with schools. So the more that happens, the more pressure there is on teachers. And I've worked with the most incredible professionals who have done the most brilliant things and being really creative with our children who have got additional needs. But underneath it all those teachers have got the most incredible pressure to perform to a certain standard and get their children to a certain standard. And quite often, there's not the room for that creativity and flexibility. For instance, when I first started teaching, we had DT, you know, glue guns and art and drama. I mean, I remember doing drama for a whole day with my class once, well now, you wouldn't even dream of that, you know, we have to pack the day full with the national curriculum subjects and the subjects were our children excel at, the art, the drama, the DT, the making, the problem solving, the movement lessons, you know, all those are the ones that have been cut. So yeah, from that angle school doesn't suit our kids at the moment because it's too target driven.

Simon Currigan: 16:59

And I think when you look at the exclusion figures,

Soli Lazarus: 17:02

yes

Simon Currigan: 17:03

You look at not just ADHD, but the high proportion of kids with Sen. You've got to look at, you know, just the way we structure our education system. Is it meeting the needs of a wide range of pupils? Actually

Soli Lazarus: 17:15

Simon, I could come and give you a hug if we weren't in different places. Honestly, this is what I bang on about all the time, our children with Sen. So not just ADHD, but Sen are six times more likely to be excluded six times. So that wasted talent, that wasted gifts that these young people can give to society. Because once you are excluded, you know, what does that do to somebody's self esteem and somebody's self worth, you know, I'm rubbish. You don't want me I'm not as cool as those clever kids, because I'm just always getting into trouble. I'm getting a detention. And then I'll start behaving how you expect me to behave. So you tell me I'm rubbish. You tell me I'm excluded, our children are also very vulnerable. So you'd get a young teenager who then is excluded, who's then very, very vulnerable, who hasn't got very good social skills, our children are lagging behind with their emotional intelligence. So they then get drawn into stuff that they shouldn't. And we estimate is, well, we know it's 25%. But we think it might be 40% of people in the criminal justice system have ADHD or undiagnosed ADHD. So again, I say, what a waste of talent. What a waste of these beautiful gifts that these young people have got. Because we know an ADHD brain is crammed full of thoughts and opinions and ideas and different ways of doing things and thinking outside the box and, and we're wasting all that, you know, we're chucking them into a system that is just going to break them. So it is tragic.

Simon Currigan: 18:55

Just like to take a pause for a moment and say that if you're finding this podcast useful, then you're going to love what we've got waiting for you in our inner circle programme. The inner circle is your one stop shop for all things behaviour. It's a comprehensive platform filled with videos, resources and behaviour inspiration to get you unstuck with classroom behaviour. We've got training resources on de escalation, supporting kids with anxiety support strategies for conditions like autism, ADHD, and PDA. practical ways of helping pupils deal with strong emotions, assertive behaviour management techniques for managing the whole classroom setting out to a classroom environment for success. Resetting behaviour with tricky classes and more. Our online videos walk you through practical solutions, step by step, just like Netflix, you can turn an inner circle subscription on or off whenever you need to, with no minimum contract. Plus, you can now get your first seven days of inner circle for just one pound. Get the behaviour answers that you've been looking for today with inner circle visit to beaconschoolsupport.co.uk. and click on the inner circle picture near the top of the homepage for more information. Okay, so let's imagine we go on a time machine back to the start of your teaching career. First day on the job. What's the one piece of advice or the thing you know now, that you wish you could tell your younger self as a teacher initially?

Soli Lazarus: 20:32

Well, I think it's to have the confidence to do it differently. And it's the confidence that if that one child needs to do their writing standing up or sitting down or that One child needs just to do short tasks and not complete it, but do it in their own way. Or if that one child needs a different piece of equipment, have the confidence as a teacher just to say, even if the head teacher walks in now, even if an Ofsted inspection, even if the Prime Minister walked into my classroom, now, I would have the confidence to say it's fine that that pupil is doing their very best, and I'm providing them what they need. It is just ranking up that confidence to know that it's okay to do it differently.

Simon Currigan: 21:17

I guess it's our thing about fairness isn't the same as everyone's having exactly the same.

Soli Lazarus: 21:22

Yes.

Simon Currigan: 21:22

And we're quite happy with the idea of giving kids who are younger, different reading books, but were more inflexible, maybe as an education professional about how children access the curriculum.

Soli Lazarus: 21:34

Yeah, I do get it all the time. So I finished my training, and people will still come up to me and say, Yes, but if we do that, for one, we have to do it for the 29 others. And I say no, you don't. Again, you're providing what this child needs. It's the reasonable adjustment of what this child needs. And it's to do with giving them the right tools in order to get to the same place as everybody else that and if they need a laptop, fine in a school needs to be flexible with the behaviour policy for that one pupil. That's what they need, because we can't punish ADHD out of an ADHD brain. So if you need to do it differently, fine. And again, it goes back to that. Yeah, it's fair for that child. And it's also a teacher having that confidence to say, Yeah, I am going to do it differently. You know, yes, this child might get a red card because he's shouted out, but he's perfectly capable not to shout out. This other child, actually, do you know what, I'll give him a whiteboard. So instead of shouting out, because he's got the answer, I'll let him just write his answer on a whiteboard. And then it's win win, you know, not everybody needs a whiteboard. So yeah, it's just providing our kids with what they need, just to give them equity. There's a brilliant graphic, I don't know if you've seen it, this is three people looking over a fence or trying to look over a fence, there's a tall guy, a medium guy, and a little guy. So the tall guy is already looking over the fence, and the other two can't. So then everybody has one box to stand on. The tall guy didn't need that, the middle guy is perfect, he can now look over the fence. And the small guy who still can't look over the fence, he actually needs three boxes, to look over the fence. And I use that graphic in my training. And I say, what those three boxes represent is the reasonable adjustment, what you have to provide for everybody to look over the fence. Some people don't need anything he was tall, he didn't need it. But some people, some of our pupils need three boxes, do you know what let's give them four, let's give them 10 boxes, if it means that they can look over the fence, they've got equal access to the curriculum, and they can just be the amazing people that society need.

Simon Currigan: 23:47

I love that kind of visual representation. Because sometimes when you see something visual like that, it's just sort of a part of me anyway, as a visual learner, it just clicks. And it just makes perfect sense of it. This podcast is mostly aimed at sort of teachers and school leaders and educational professionals but I know, we do have parents who listen as well. If you get back in that time machine and tell yourself something about ADHD, before you started on this sort of journey towards diagnosis with your son, what piece of advice would you give yourself as a parent?

Soli Lazarus: 24:16

I beat myself up about stuff I did wrong with my son. You know, we went into parenting, you know, traditional parenting mode. You know, don't say that. Don't do that to your sister, where's your jumper, but you've been chucked out of another group. This is you know, this is just not on, you've just got to der der der!. So what I would do and what I advise my families is throw out that traditional parenting guide book, because it doesn't work. Our children with ADHD, we have to do it differently. We have to normalise ADHD for a start, we have to talk about it as if it's just a thing. And it's not a big thing. It's just part of who we are. And the other thing I would do is empower so empower my son. So get him to understand, you know, this is all getting too much for me, I need to just go out, or I don't want to go to that birthday party because it's too noisy. So enable our young people to have a voice. And I think this is really true in schools as well. If we give our children the permission to say I need some help, or I need to do it differently, or I need this piece of equipment, or I don't need this or I find it uncomfortable when you know if we give our children permission to use their voice. We must listen because there's no point in them saying, Sir, I need to go out because they know that actually it's all too much and they say no, you've been out once you can't go again. So then what happens is they think become disruptive. Because we know an ADHD brain is craving interest. And an ADHD brain is craving motivation, because they're missing those neurotransmitters that create the dopamine and the serotonin, we know that. So this is why an ADHD brain has to be stimulated all the time. So if we educate our young people to think once they're getting bored, if they then go and ask for some help, or ask for some time out, or ask for something sensory, or ask for some challenging work, because quite often our children are bored, because the works too easy.

Simon Currigan: 26:26

And think it's important to make the point here, isn't it that ADHD is not a learning disability.

Soli Lazarus: 26:29

Correct, people with ADHD are part of the normal population. But generally, the whole thing of ADHD is, the brain is just super busy, the brain is just not able to control some of the thoughts and emotions and impulses. It's not to do with learning it can be. But many entrepreneurs, many successful people have ADHD. And they are the most incredibly intelligent, smart, clever, creative, amazing people, whether we're measuring intelligence by the stupid SATs So I think that brings us nicely on to your book, you're the or GCSEs, or whatever, our children do struggle with those but not because they're not clever, that it's because they don't possibly learn in the way that they're being taught. Or they find it boring, and it's not relevant to them. So they switch off. And quite often, like I was saying before, give me something challenging to do. They actually want to be challenged, I would accompany our year six children on school journey, and that I absolutely loved it. Because during those times the children who are problem solving, and working out how do we get this raft across this the water? And how do we climb this wall? And what do we need to put into the, to here to make it float where our children with ADHD, the children who everybody else saw as, oh, they're the ones who have got special needs and have to be taken out. Actually, when it came to being a problem solver and being in the thick of it, they wanted them on their team, then, you know, then they saw Oh, you know, you're you've got something here, because in a crisis, you want somebody with ADHD because they can quickly think of tonnes of different solutions. They might not be the right ones. But the thing with ADHD as well, they just go for it because of the impulsivity and which is why I say we have to see things as superpowers, we have to flip the conversation. So instead of saying, Oh, they're just impulsive, and they're getting into trouble, actually, they're also risk takers. And risk takers are people who find out and discover new things because they don't stop and think, or I'm not sure I should add that chemical to this chemical. They just think, oh, let's give it a go. And they do it. And lo and behold, we then get a Dyson, or a Branson or you know, these incredible brains who do things in a different way. We need those people. So no, in answer to your question, our ADHD does not equal a learning difficulty. author of ADHD is your superpower. Can you tell us a little bit about what you're hoping to achieve with the book? What's inside the book? What spurred you to write the book in the first place? Yeah. So when people came to me and said, Oh, my child has just been diagnosed, how do I explain there were so few resources for children about 7,8,9, 10,11 ,12 You know, there was very little resources. There's some great YouTube channels, there's some great American books, but there was nothing really UK based that was relevant to our UK children. So that's why did I just thought well, our rights it's a little chapter book is ADHD is our superpower. Each chapter is a different character. And the character explains what issues they come across what challenges and then each chapter says how adults can help them what the teachers can do to help them and and I've had such great feedback. I'm actually number nine in the Amazon charts. Super excited about that. It just gives children who have read it, this sort of almost like the penny dropping. Oh, I'm not an idiot. I'm not naughty. I'm not on my own. And I think that's the thing is, I'm not I'm not a weirdo. I'm not on my own. I've actually got this amazing superpower. And if the adults around can can harness that superpower and see the beauty in our children, and as I say the creativity, the spontaneity, the fun, the humour, the doing things in a different way, just this go for it attitude, then our children can, can shine rather than feel blamed and shamed.

Simon Currigan: 31:00

So if you're a teacher or a parent listening to this podcast, what's the first step you can take today, whether that's an action or a mindset change that you can make to start helping kids with ADHD or at home or at school?

Soli Lazarus: 31:12

I think the very first thing to do is educate and normalise, and talk about ADHD, and sort of almost say, yeah, that's your ADHD, you know, use humour, throw out that traditional parenting book, we have to do it differently. So you can't just say, Honey, go and brush your teeth. And I'll see you upstairs in bed. Or as teachers, you can't just say, right, everybody sit down and be quiet, because it's just not going to happen. And all you're then doing is setting our children up to fail. So we have to do it in a different way. That is not to say, as parents and teachers, we don't have rules and boundaries. But what we have to do with our our young people is collaborate, which is why I say we do it in a different way. Because traditionally, we wouldn't say we would collaborate with our children, we're just say, I'm the adult, you're in charge you do what I say, we can't do that. Because all that will happen in these scenarios, you have conflict. So you have to stop and say, right, let's work out how we're going to get you up to bed, how we're going to get your first screen? How are we going to get everybody to sit down quietly for an hour? How are we going to get you to access this bit of the curriculum? What do you think? If we do it this way? Is this going to work? Or let me hear your ideas? So yeah, I think that's my one tip is you have to do it in a different way. Because the traditional ways will just cause conflict.

Simon Currigan: 32:40

And how can our listeners find out more about your resources? Because you've got a lot on your website? How can we find out more about what you've got on offer Soli?.

Soli Lazarus: 32:46

So if you just go to my website, there's got the links to everything. So that's WWW.SOLI-LAZARUS.COM And then that's the hub for so I had The Together Stronger Club, that's a membership I have for parents, there's a link to my podcast and my blog. There's a link to training that I offer teachers, I do parent groups, I give talks to charities. So yeah, just go there, and everything is on that page.

Simon Currigan: 33:22

And last of all, we ask this of all our guests, who's the key figure that's influenced you? Or what's the key book that you've read? That's had the biggest impact on your approach to working with kids.

Soli Lazarus: 33:32

So I have read so many great books about neurodiversity. I've read so many great books about how we can support and help our children, I met so many wonderful professionals. But I think the book I would recommend is The Explosive Child by Ross Green. And I think he was my trigger this whole thing of as a parent, we have to do it differently. We have to find that win win, we have to talk and we have to listen to our children, and we have to collaborate a minute that is such a great word. And it is a bit scary because it's doing things completely differently to how we were parented. Or as teachers, you know, what do you mean, we have to listen to our students, but the more we collaborate, and the more we find that win win, I honestly honestly believe that we will just get the best out of our children, rather than them ending up feeling like they're worthless. So yeah, the The Explosive Child by Ross Green.

Simon Currigan: 34:37

It's a great book. I know it well.

Soli Lazarus: 34:38

Oh, great.

Simon Currigan: 34:39

Soli , thank you for being on the podcast today. It's been a pleasure to have you and I think you've given us a real insight into the challenges but also the positives of having a child with ADHD or being a student in a classroom with ADHD.

Soli Lazarus: 34:53

Thank you so much Simon and keep up your great work as well. Take care.

Simon Currigan: 34:57

Thank you very much.

Emma Shackleton: 34:58

Oh I think it's really good to hear people like Soli talking to keep in your mind a balanced perspective about the difficulties and the advantages that ADHD can bring.

Simon Currigan: 35:10

And I'll drop some direct links to her books and resources in the show notes. And if you work with kids with challenging behaviour, and you're not sure why they're acting that way, we've got a download that can help. It's called the Sen handbook, and it will help you link behaviours you've seen in the classroom with possible causes, like autism and ADHD.

Emma Shackleton: 35:30

And the idea here, of course, isn't for teachers to make a diagnosis because we're not qualified to do that. But if we can link behaviours to possible causes quickly, it means that we can get the right help and get the Early intervention strategies in place. The handbook is a free download, go to the website beaconschoolsupport.co.uk, click on Free Resources near the top. And we'll also put a link in the episode description.

Simon Currigan: 35:58

And remember to subscribe to the show to make sure you hear each episode as it's released. It's super easy and only takes 10 seconds. Open up your podcast app now click on the subscribe button or follow button as it's now called in Apple podcasts. And your podcast app will automatically download every single episode for you. So you never miss a thing. And to celebrate joining this exclusive club of subscribers, why not have fun with an egg

Emma Shackleton: 36:27

Fun with an egg? What's that?

Simon Currigan: 36:29

Yknow, Egg fun.

Emma Shackleton: 36:30

Okay. Anyway, we both hope that you have a brilliant week and we look forward to seeing you on the next episode of school behaviour secrets. Bye for now.

Simon Currigan: 36:40

Bye, dont forget, egg fun.