Have you ever worked with a pupil who just argues about everything, even the things that you know they secretly agree with? You say stand up, they sit down. You say good morning, and they reply no, it's not. Life in the classroom feels like one long argument or power battle. Yeah, those kids. Well, that constant tug of war might not just be stubbornness or attitude. It could be oppositional defiant disorder, or ODD. It's a really misunderstood condition that gets confused with other conditions, and understanding what's driving ODD could change how you see those kids forever. So if you want to know more about this condition and strategies to use to support the kids that you work with, then this episode's for you. Hi there, my name's Simon Currigan and welcome to this week's episode of School Behaviour Secrets. This week I've mostly been avoiding a sense of existential terror, brought on by my own unavoidable demise by drinking vodka and doing crystal art. The crystal art took me a week, and it doesn't look anything like the picture on Amazon, although whether that's the fault of the design or the empty bottle of vodka that's now in my recycling is open to debate. Which weirdly brings me to the tenuous link with today's topic, because sometimes student behaviour that looks chaotic or random on the surface actually has a deeper pattern to it underneath, especially when it comes to oppositional behaviour, and that's exactly what we're going to be looking at today. We're going to be diving into oppositional defiant disorder, or ODD. to unpack what ODD isn't, what ODD actually is, what drives those behaviours you see from your students at school and at home, and four evidence-based strategies you can use straight away to support pupils who show those behaviours. But before we get to that, and if you haven't done so already, please remember to subscribe to the podcast on your podcast app so you never miss And while you've got that podcast app open, please take the time to leave me a rating and review, which encourages the podcasting gods to share this show with other teachers and school leaders, just like you, who need this information to help the students that they're working with day after day after day. It really makes a difference and it's a quick and free way of supporting our work here on School Behaviour Secrets. So let's start by clearing up a few of the biggest myths, because these are the ideas that get teachers stuck in battles that they can't win about ODD. Myth one. ODD is just bad behaviour. And the thing is, right, it's not. The diagnostic criteria, so that's the list of behaviours that medical professionals look for when they're like ODD. Those criteria, they talk about a child presenting a persistent pattern of angry or irritable mood, argumentative or defiant behaviour, and sometimes vindictiveness, lasting at least six months and well beyond what's typical for that child's age. And that definition isn't just my take, that's straight from the DSM-5, the document professionals use to diagnose mental health in many areas of the world. And it's supported by large-scale reviews like a 2002 meta-analysis which confirmed that these core emotional and behavioural patterns distinguish ODD from ordinary misbehaviour. Now it's easy for us as adults, when we see behaviours like those that I've just listed in the classroom, to kind of put a morality spin on that. We might think that the ODDs are selfish, but we're dealing with children, often young children, so if we think a bit deeper... about what these criteria, what they tell us, whatever behaviours we see on the outside, they're reflecting an underlying emotional regulation issue on the inside, and that's something we can work with. We have strategies to support children with that, and that framing is empowering as a teacher or a parent, because emotional regulation is something we can do without. We can support the kids, whereas slapping a good or bad label on the child leads us really down a dead-end road, a cul-de-sac that goes nowhere. So for both the child and the adult, digging into the why, which I know is something I keep banging on about, that's a really good thing. These criteria, they tell us about what's driving the behaviour, and that gives us a path forward. Myth two is that these kids just need tougher boundaries, and actually doubling down on control with kids with ODD actually tends to make things worse. Power battles with adults do not teach regulation, they just prove who can shout the loudest. With ODD and many other conditions related to SEMH actually, there's this Bruce Lee quote that springs to mind that helps us get into the right mindset to move our students towards success, and that quote is, be like water, meaning when we hit resistance from our student, or defiance, or they're disrespectful, or whatever it is, that's like a boulder in the river, and what we need to do as the adult is adapt our approach. So the water in a river changes its form and it moves around the boulder fluidly so it can continue to make progress. That means the trick isn't to escalate power battles, it's to be the professional, the adult, and change the approach to get a good result. Myth three is ODD means disrespect, and ODD is rarely about disrespect actually. When you dig into what's happening underneath in the child, it's often about control, it's about safety, and about predictability. When the child is missing any one of those three foundation stones, their behaviour becomes their way of trying to restore kind of like an emotional balance. If they don't feel safe, they don't feel safe. They push back against the adult to protect themselves. If they don't feel in control, they'll create control through arguing or refusing or walking out. And if life feels unpredictable, if adults' responses change from one day to the next, they'll fill that uncertainty with conflict, because at least that's a pattern that they understand and that they're often very good at, probably better than you or I. So what looks like deliberate defiance is often just a desperate attempt to make the world feel stable again, to retain a sense of control in an environment that feels uncontrollable. When we see it that way, ODD stops being about won't, and starts being about I can't right now. Myth four is ODD is basically the same as PDA. And right, I can understand this, and from the outside it's close but not quite, because both involve control, but for very different reasons. And those different reasons will change our approach. Very simply, and this is very broad brush, children with PDA seek control to escape anxiety. Children with ODD seek control for its own sake, because control itself has become the battleground. So while the surface behaviours from the two children might look similar, the emotional engine underneath those two conditions is completely different. And that's why when the behaviours from two completely different conditions look so similar as they do with ODD and PDA, it's so important to dig beneath the surface to find the real drivers behind the behaviours, and then when we know that, select the right support strategies. So like an analogy here might be, you can have sharp chest pains from both indigestion or a heart attack. From the outside, those symptoms might look very similar, but the remedies, they're very different. Myth five is that my toddler's tantrums must be ODD. No. Tantrums are part of normal development up to about the age of four. ODD isn't even diagrammed. ODD is diagnosed until at least four years old, because before then, those outbursts are kind of developmentally expected. It's when we get beyond that age group that ODD reaches our radar. OK, so those are the myths around ODD. Now let's look at what ODD actually is. And I've kind of started touching on this already. ODD at its heart is an emotional regulation disorder. It's not about wanting to misbehave. It's about a child who, when they feel controlled or criticised or powerless, flips into this kind of defensive oppositional state. And their nervous system is basically saying, I don't feel safe right now. And that's why arguing, refusing or digging in their heels feels automatic for them. It's not a thought through choice. It's kind of this protective reaction. So here's something most people don't realise about ODD. And that's around 30 to 50% of children with ADHD also meet the criteria for ODD. That's not just something teachers notice anecdotally. Studies consistently find that roughly a third to a half of pupils with ADHD also would meet the criteria for ODD. And one review in 2019 found those exact figures showing how closely those two conditions overlap in terms of impulsivity and emotional intensity. And that overlap makes sense. Both impulsivity, emotional intensity and difficulty with inhibition are common to both conditions. So if you're working with a pupil who's constantly challenging you, it's worth thinking about whether ADHD traits might also be part of the picture too. That's why when we're working out in the real world, it's so important to look at the whole child. So let's look under the bonnet or let's look under the hood for our US listeners and see what's really going on with ADHD. And the first thing is control equals safety. Many pupils with ODD have learnt that being in control keeps them safe. When someone else takes charge, they're in control. Their brain interprets that as danger and up go the defensive walls very, very quickly. The behaviour that they're showing is saying, you can't control me because being controlled has never felt safe. And then you see the child kind of wrestling control away from the adults, fighting back, being disrespectful, saying mean things. Secondly, perceived unfairness is a big deal. These pupils have a very, very finely tuned radar for injustice. If they see one rule applied to one child and not another, or they sense hypocrisy from the adult, they'll just explode. They're constantly scanning for fairness and safety. But by the way, like a lot of kids, don't expect that justice to be a two-way streak. While you might see your student complain about how the rules are being unfairly applied to them, don't necessarily expect them to be so active when things are working in the opposite direction, when things are working to their advantage. But perceived unfairness is a big deal for kids with ODD when it affects them personally. Thirdly, defensiveness and rejection sensitivity. Kids with ODD often externalise blame to protect their self-esteem.That means they project things that have gone wrong onto other people rather than looking inward. And over time, that can lead to repeated conflict that can make them feel like the adults are against them, even when that literally isn't true. The pushback becomes a shield against rejection or perceived failure. They're not thinking, I'm bad or I've done the wrong thing. They're thinking, you're against me, so I'll fight first. And again, that's the key. These behaviours are like a shield. They're protective. They're not necessarily malicious. Okay, so that's the why behind the behaviours. Now let's shift to the practical part and look at some strategies you can use to support your students or your own kids if you're a parent of a child with oppositional defiant disorder. So, strategy one, swerve the power struggle. You will never win a control battle with a So, stop trying to win it. Be like the water. flow around the resistance. That could mean, however painful this is in the moment, seeing the big picture and sharing control over a difficult situation to get a good result for you and the student. So, if the student's refusing or being disrespectful, offer limited meaningful choices. So, instead of saying you have to start at question one or do the work, you can say you can start with question one or two. It's entirely up to you. It feels like you're putting the control back in the student's hands when you do that. Keep your tone calm and predictable and replace commands with next steps. So, saying things like, here's what happens next. The next step is. So, when I said that, see how I removed myself as the person giving the instruction in that sentence and it kind of becomes more passive. I didn't say I want you to do this next or you have to do this next. I completely disappeared from the sentence as the person giving the direction and said, here's what happens next. The next step is. It's a more passive way of speaking that kind of avoids throwing up those defensive walls. And where possible, flowing around the obstacles beats using punishment every time because sanctions escalate, which gets the child in return to dig in, get their retaliation in, and then that just prolongs the confrontation and the defiance. So, in the situation, in the classroom, that might involve on your part taking a very deep breath and counting to a slow 10, but do it because it will make your life better in the long run and it opens the door to progress. The second strategy I've got for you is regulate them first and teach them second. Remember, if the child's in fight or flight, reasoning about what's right and what's wrong is pointless. Address their emotional state, not their behavior to start with. So, we lead with empathy, using phrases like, you look frustrated, let's take a breather. Instead of meeting their behavior head on with listing rules or expectations. And when you do it, use a calm tone, safe body language and give them space to co-regulate. Once they're calm, THEN by all means have a coaching conversation and talk about expectations and boundaries. But trying to reason with a child in survival mode is a recipe for stress and failure on both sides. So don't put the emotional cart before the horse. Strategy 3 is repair and reset after things have gone wrong. After a conflict, reconnect. And for kids with ODD, the reset matters more than the sanction. So it's important to say something like, I still like you, even though I didn't like your choices this morning. And that message of belonging chips away at the defensiveness that drives oppositional behavior. And it from their identity. I did a bad thing. I'm not a bad person. So here, consistency and reconnection are the treatment plan. Everything else is noise. Focus on what helps them make progress, because without progress in the end, we're going to be trapped in the classroom, going around and around in circles, replaying the same conflicts over and over. And strategy 4 is use reward systems, but with realistic expectations. Now, I'm the guy who says students and adults should do the right thing because it's the right thing. And let's burn all the reward charts. But I also hold a conflicting belief, and that overrules everything else I believe about behavior and SEMH, which is do what works for your student, assuming that it's reasonably humane. You're not locking them in the chokie for 10 hours or anything. And there's a lot of research, despite my instinctive beliefs, showing that structured reward systems or token economies can reduce aggression and disruptive behavior in students in schools. And that's backed up by a whole body of research. There was a 2020 review that looked at token economy systems in classrooms and found they significantly reduced aggressive and disruptive behavior. And in my experience, using reward charts selectively and carefully for students with ODD has had an impact. So, if you're working with a child with ODD who's struggling to regulate or constantly getting into arguments, this might be the time to break them out and commit to them. But, and this is a big but, when I say I've had success with that, that's just my experience going out into schools working with teachers and students and parents. And there is a reason I'm going to caveat what I've just said. Because from what I've found, although there is lots of research to show reward systems and economies can be effective in reducing aggression in students, when you specifically look at kids who have been diagnosed with ODD, the research is much thinner. What we do know is that these systems work best as part of a bigger package, meaning they're not the only strategy. They're in the mix of a wider needs-led approach and joined up with what parents are doing at home. Approaches that give the pupil clear targets, immediate feedback, frequent praise and predictable rewards. So yes, extrinsic rewards can help, but only when used consistently, calmly and alongside relationship and skills building and needs-led approaches. Used on their own, they're not going to get you very far. By the way, if you've been listening today and thinking, we could really use more practical no-nonsense strategies like these in our school, then you're going to love something I've got for you completely free called the SEND Behaviour Handbook. It's a completely free resource that we put together to help teachers and school leaders better understand and support pupils with additional needs, especially those whose behaviour can sometimes be challenging to the adults or is unsafe in school or when you're not quite sure how to start supporting them. Inside you'll find short, easy-to-read guides to conditions like ADHD, autism, trauma, anxiety and ODD, which is why I bring it up, along with simple actionable tips you can start using straight away in the classroom. It's perfect for sharing with your colleagues during CPD sessions, staff meetings or even part of your induction pack for new teachers or teaching assistants because it gives everyone in your school a common understanding of what really drives student behaviour and how to respond in ways that actually work, that are actually effective. So if you haven't got it already, go and grab your free copy. Just visit beaconschoolsupport.co.uk/send-handbook. That's beaconschoolsupport.co.uk/send-handbook slash handbook today. And I'll also put a link in the show notes in your podcast app. So all you have to do is tap on the picture of this episode. The description will pop up for today's episode and you can tap straight through on the link. So that's ODD. And to sum up today's episode, here's the truth. Here are the key facts about oppositional defiant disorder, however it feels. And believe me, I've been there. Students with ODD aren't actually trying to make your life difficult in the classroom. They're trying to make their world feel safe. And once you stop fighting for control, you become like the water and start focusing on building trust. Everything changes. It's not an immediate win by any means. It does take time to see success, but stick with the strategies that I've spoken about today and your student will get there. And that's what I've got for you today in this episode of School Behaviour Secrets. If today's episode gave you something useful, hit subscribe and leave us a quick review. It helps more educators discover School Behaviour Secrets and get the tools they need to support every child in their classroom. Thank you for listening today and I can't wait to see you next time on School Behaviour Secrets.