Kevin Hewitson: 0:44

This is so important. As soon as teachers stop being learners, they forfeit the right to be teachers, teachers should always remain learners. And you have to take on a challenge that pushes yourself outside of your comfort zone. And by doing so you reconnect with the learning process. Many teachers have reached the level of mastery, especially in their subject. You are a long way from the pupil who's just at the beginning or partway through that journey. And you might have just forgotten what it was like.

Simon Currigan: 1:15

Welcome to the school behaviour secrets podcast. I'm your host, Simon Currigan. My co host is Emma Shackleton and we're obsessed with helping teachers, school leaders, parents, and of course students. When classroom behaviour gets in the way of success. We're going to share the tried and tested secrets to classroom management behavioural special needs, whole school strategy and more all with the aim of helping your students reach their true potential. Plus, we'll be letting you eavesdrop on our conversations with thought leaders from around the world. So you'll get to hear their latest evidence based strategies before anyone else. This is the school behaviour secrets podcast. Welcome to Episode 18 of school behaviour secrets as ever, we're recording exclusively from behaviour towers, and the toilet is dual flush and on a water meter, so don't be wasteful. As ever. I'm joined by my co host, Emma Shackleton. Hi, Emma.

Emma Shackleton: 2:09

Hi, Simon.

Simon Currigan: 2:10

Emma, I've been thinking .How did you meet your husband?

Emma Shackleton: 2:13

Well, it was a long, long time ago. And his group of friends and my group of friends used to hang out in the same places. So that's really how we first met each other. And we got on brilliantly and the rest as they say is history. Okay, so I've told you mine. How did you meet your wife Simon?

Simon Currigan: 2:31

The literal truth is I met her a bus stop and kept her. And now the bus stop is gone. But I've still got the wife. This episode is all about relationships, not romantic relationships, but adults pupil relationships in school and how important they are to influencing positive classroom behaviour. And our guest today, Kevin Hewitson has put together a four part framework for developing positive classroom relationships. Even with hard to reach kids.

Emma Shackleton: 2:59

That sounds really interesting. But before we play that interview, I've got a small request to make. If you enjoy the show today, please spend 30 seconds giving us a rating and review on Apple podcasts. Every review tells Apple to recommend the podcast to other listeners so they can find the show and start getting the help they need to support the children in their classrooms too. And now, here's our interview with Kevin Hewitson.

Simon Currigan: 3:27

I'd like to welcome our guest on the school behaviour secrets podcast today, his name is Kevin Hewitson. Kevin's got over 40 years of experience in teaching, and has held pastoral and subject lead roles, as well as working as assistant principal responsible for teaching and learning strategies. He now works independently as an educational consultant, author and speaker, Kevin's author of the book, "If you can't reach them, you can't teach them", which is all about why forming relationships with pupils is the key to unlocking their success, especially for pupils with emotional and behavioural issues. And in this interview, he is going to guide us through his four part framework for doing exactly that. Kevin's not only incredibly knowledgeable, but he also backs that knowledge up with practical strategies and techniques. Kevin, welcome to the show.

Kevin Hewitson: 4:19

Thank you, Simon. And thank you for the opportunity of talking about my work.

Simon Currigan: 4:23

So let's jump straight in with the question. Why do you think that kids and I'm particularly thinking here about hard to reach kids? Why do they need a relationship with an adult to manage their behaviour and emotions in class?

Kevin Hewitson: 4:36

Many children of that nature have limited agency, they have very few tactics to deal with the challenges that they face. And we would normally develop those in the company of adults. And as a result of a loving and safe relationship where that is missing or was an adult missing in that relationship. Those strategies tend not to be so well developed in a social sense. So they tend to be survival strategies. I think these are often seen in schools as aggressive in nature or provocational and often involve a sort of element of bravado where the tactic is successful, then it tends to be repeated. And even when it's not initially successful, they will tend to escalate, children will escalate far more than any teacher will do in a sort of challenging situation.

Simon Currigan: 5:24

What does this give them? What does success mean? In this case,

Kevin Hewitson: 5:27

Well, a relationship with an adult can help develop agencies and can help developing coping strategies. My work would focus on developing what I would call it in inner voice that they can use to regulate their behaviour. It can certainly make people feel safe that relationship with an adult. There's that whole thing about fight and flight isn't there? you know, when we feel under threat, how we would tend to respond by trying to limit our exposure to the challenges that we're facing. And pupils tend to want to get out of the classroom and will do anything to do that. But if you've got a relationship, those calming words, that reassurance that can help de escalate Well, okay, I acknowledge what you're going through, I acknowledge what you are feeling. But let's try and deal with this together. And without that relationship, you'll never get to that point. So it's important that we see behaviour as a symptom of need. And when we do that, then we can begin to address the need. And then through that the behaviour,

Simon Currigan: 6:22

Why do you think that some children find this so

Kevin Hewitson: 6:24

The school environments an interesting one, difficult? we have a set of expectations of behaviour. And often that behaviour is reflected in what we probably call compliance, where we're asking the pupils to behave in a certain way. Where those behaviours come from, to some are alien, and it's certainly not childlike. We know for example, concentration levels wane after 10 minutes yet we have a situation in schools where we put pupils in 40, 50 minute, one hour lessons, this whole idea of pace, we've got to keep learning, we've got to keep moving on, we've got to keep demonstrating our knowledge and understanding. You go into any conferences, as I have done, you'll see the eyelids on the audience begin to close, and you have to do something, don't you have to change your pace, or you have to introduce an element of humour or something to waken the audience up again. So how on earth can we expect students or pupils to behave in such a way that they are compliant to a set of behaviours which are not natural to them?

Simon Currigan: 7:23

So you've got a four part framework for building relationships with kids that you've labelled p, b, c, f. And to make this easy to remember, you've given it a label, please be child friendly. But what does PBCF mean? And how did you develop your framework for building relationships with kids

Kevin Hewitson: 7:41

PBC F stands for four learner engagement needs? that I have identified as key in learning a teacher. So each letter stands for one of those needs. So we have power, belonging, choice, and fun. And as you say, to make it memorable, you can say, Please be child friendly. But because this also works with adults, you can say, Please be colleague friendly, because adults have got the same engagement needs children, right? how it developed. It's like pieces of a jigsaw really, the one that you find in the drawer, you think, where does that fit, but you don't throw it away? And you come across another piece? I think that might go with the first bit. I'm not sure so you keep that. But you've not yet found the box or the picture until one day, one day it sort of all seems to make sense. How did I get to that decision? Well, I think it started off in about the first term of teaching, I got asked to do a cover lesson. And I got asked to cover a math lesson and maths is something I love. So I went in there quite happy bouncing everything else yet. We're going to do transposition to formula, what's the problem, no problem at all. And within about 20 minutes, the kids have me tied in a knot, we were going round in circles and nobody was getting it. I came out there thinking well, what is it? So I went up to see the special needs guy. And I said to Errol, why? You know, am I missing something out. Does my way of thinking require me to go straight from A to B to C to D for the kids? But the kids have got a step in the middle, something that I'm not aware of? Because the way I think. And his answer was "not really" That was not very helpful. But that was the start. And then when I went on to be head of department, I realised that if I put some teachers with some pupils, I had no referral problems. If I put others with them, I was in and out that classroom trying to deal with behaviour, etc. So I learned that some kids got on with some teachers and not others, and in some subjects and not others. And that was a revelation. There's obviously something going on here. What is it? And then I got the job of dealing with reporting structures that give me access to all sorts of information. And what I began to see was in consistencies in the achievement and behaviour of pupils from one teacher to another. So you get a report from one teacher, which said, This guy is absolutely brilliant, no problem whatsoever. Another teacher was saying, Well, you know, needs to settle. And that made me realise there was three types of reports and basically three types of pupils compliant learners who were engaged, non compliant learners who were a nuisance, certainly not engaged. And then there's even a third set which were compliant learners who weren't engaged either they were just absenting themselves from the lesson. So that got me into thinking, Well, why is all you know, going back to that question, why? Why is all this happening? That is where I started all sorts of begin to realise that I had a lot of naughty pupils who wanted to be in my lessons. So I was doing something different as well. And I think that got recognised in the school because I got one point asked to take on or to do my thing with a group of pupils who were at risk, and that projects involve pupils who've been excluded from lessons and grouped together. So I had my work cut out with them, they certainly taught me a lot about teaching, and helped me to bring into focus all of those things I've just mentioned, because, you're at the sharp end, you've got 18 kids in front of you who don't want to be there, and who are letting you know, they don't want to be there. And you have to somehow build a relationship with them and meet those needs. That is all the bits of the jigsaw thing, which sort of came together after I stopped teaching and had an opportunity to look back and reflect one of the things with teaching as a full time job. There's no resp te. And I think that's one of t e problems long term with t aching and teachers remaining i the career is they need time t reflect.

Simon Currigan: 11:31

And of course, the power of a framework is that it allows you to share those ideas effectively with other colleagues. Yeah. Whereas if you're just doing your own personal ad hoc ways of building relationships with kids, then you can't pass that on to other people.

Kevin Hewitson: 11:45

Yeah. And once I wasn't actually in the classroom and working with teachers, and that's where the hard work started finding a way to have this simple conversation with teachers to draw them in same as you would do with pupils, finding a way of drawing them in to make them aware of what they're doing, and how it can be done better.

Simon Currigan: 12:02

Okay, then tell us about how the P for power helps adults in the classroom build relationships with students?

Kevin Hewitson: 12:09

Well, first of all, power has got a bad press. So I want to distinguish that we're not talking about domination control, bullying, sarcasm, all that sort of thing. Power to me is to have a voice to be listened to, and to be able to contribute to the learning experience. If we don't listen to pupils, then I don't think we'll ever understand their needs, or their behaviour drivers or to begin to understand the way they are behaving. In teaching, the need for pupils voice should not be seen as a power struggle. And I think that's one of the challenges to teachers. We know that whether a sufficient energy or motivation to be heard, it can lead to a conflict, because people get passionate, they have something they want to say. And if they don't feel as though they're being heard, we get louder. I'm always reminded of seeing a kid in a supermarket telling mommy gentle way that they wanted some of those crisps on that shelf. And when mommy ignored Mommy, I want! And when mommy still ignored. It was the crying tantrum tears throw the dummy out of the pram time. So yeah, we have to be aware of that. If we're not listening, then we can actually be building up energy, which can you know, like a volcano, explode. If you're in conflict, there'll be no progress in developing relationship at all. And that's key. So conflict is not always an outburst or noisy, either. conflict can be internalised kids can switch off. So we have to be aware of that as well. What's the point? Nobody ever listens to me? Yeah.

Simon Currigan: 13:43

So what kind of practical strategies can teachers use to help improve power in the classroom? In your part of the framework?What would it look like in the classroom?

Kevin Hewitson: 13:53

Achieving power can take the form of mastering a skill or a subject or require responsibility, often as a reward for an action over time, it's preferable in schools, I think that ultimately pupils reach the understanding that knowledge and learning can bring a form of power that satisfies their need. So common strategies, allocating duties and responsibilities to pupils, even for things that you would normally do. It's useful to engage the pupils in offering them an opportunity to be involved. Asking for feedback, or suggestions as to how to improve the lesson to help them engage more is also a very, very good practical way of doing it. So encouraging a managed voice. So managed voice is important. sticking your hand up is a form of non managed voice, you know, the kids who quickly put their hand up?

Simon Currigan: 14:47

What would you say to teachers who are nervous about increasing the sense of pupil power and agency?

Kevin Hewitson: 14:52

Don't be! There's a whole bit in my book, which is about the confident teacher, I think you've hit a key point, the confident teachers, one who doesn't avoid pupils challenging what they're saying or what they're doing, but uses it to their advantage. Give you a quick example, one of my mentors said to me never ignore the red herring question because what kids are doing is giving you a view into their world use it. You might see that as being a challenge, you know, the kid trying to put you off track, but what they're doing is trying to reach out to you. They're trying to establish a relationship with you. They're trying to have a voice. So the red herring question, don't let it go. You never know when it might go in useful.

Simon Currigan: 15:31

Okay, so let's move on to the next part of the framework. It was B which stood for belonging. What's the impact of belonging in the classroom, especially here for hard to reach kids

Kevin Hewitson: 15:40

Well without welcoming pupils into our schools and in our classroom, building any form of relationship is almost impossible. We all want a feeling of belonging, a sense of belonging some way. And a feeling a sense of belonging drives many of our social behaviours and decisions, you only have to ask anybody How did you see the football last night? you know, people have opinions about this club, or that club or the cricket or whatever, there's lots of topics where people will associate themselves with, to gain the sense of belonging. So we have to create that sense of belonging in some way. Even if the behaviour in school challenges what school wants in terms of behaviour, policy, or expectancy in terms of social rights involved, pupils will still adopt the behaviour, if the need to belong is strong enough. It's one of the key things that a teacher has to be very, very careful with. That's why you as a teacher, you must create that sense of belonging, when I used to say to teachers stand at the door, and the face and expressions and your actions have got to say, welcome to my world. It's exciting, interesting and challenging. But I'll hold your hand all the way. And if we can do that, then we've got a better chance of forming relationships, and improve pupil engagement in learning and reducing conflict.

Simon Currigan: 16:57

So practically, how do you develop that sense of belonging with kids who are opting into groups where the norm is, school isn't for me, what kind of practical things can you say and do?

Kevin Hewitson: 17:08

Meet up outside the classroom. So it's a neutral territory, almost, you got to think of it that the classroom can be a toxic environment for some pupils actually going in there sets up their anxiety or stress levels, even before they start. It might not need much to kick off. So meet up outside the classroom, be at the point where you'll know kids will pass by, and you can start the engagement in conversation, foster school trips, and take part in school trips. It's one of the great things I mean, the number of times I've taken kids on trips. And the school saying no, you can't take them because their behaviour hasn't been good. You know, you're getting on the school trip. I know the best kids in the world. So why exclude them from it, show them as a positive side to you as well help build that relationship. Organise and attend a school event or after school club, we've got to find opportunities to do that. So if you can't, you know, you're not running the after school club meet and greet in the corridor or in the lunch queue. Just be out and about be that smiley friendly face that is approachable.

Simon Currigan: 18:08

So we're saying you sort of form relationships in the cracks between more formal times those informal spaces, the minute here the minute they're bumping into someone in the corridor?

Kevin Hewitson: 18:17

Yeah, I do warn teachers that are look a glance, a word can turn a kid off forever. So just that kid coming up to you might have took months to approach you. So although these things impact on your time, I think you've got to balance that out against the time spent with dealing with pupils who lacked engagement or motivation, or demonstrate poor behaviour. It's never wasted.

Simon Currigan: 18:39

Okay, so we've covered power, and we've covered belonging, the next part of your framework is C, which stands for choice, why does choice matter? And what do you mean by choice in this context, in the context of the classroom

Kevin Hewitson: 18:51

Choice is a difficult one, we need to manage choice, because so much of the teaching and learning environment involves making choices. But these choices are often made in terms of the topic, the content, the delivering the levels, the pace, the assessment, the seating, the grouping, the guidance, just to name a few, however, things are school or teachers choices, and not the choices of the learner. So important lesson to learn is that choice brings consequences, and therefore a sense of responsibility to our actions. That's why we have to build it into the choices we involve the pupils in because once we develop the mechanism for choosing by offering choice, and guiding that choice, we also then develop a sense of responsibility for the choices we make. So choices may help us deal with learning challenges, because it might allow us to take a different course of action.

Simon Currigan: 19:47

Can you give us a practical example of that?

Kevin Hewitson: 19:48

Yeah, I mean, staying with only one way of doing something is limiting. That's true in learning as in any other activity, an example teachers of history, the students who demonstrate they have an understanding of a particular event in history, typical way, answer some questions, yeah, test, or they could write an essay. But could we do a newspaper article? Could we record an interview with somebody? So you know, could we produce a play? There are lots of ways we could do that. But that has to be carefully managed. I'm gonna give an example of where a pupil might fail in that because they take choice not understanding the consequences. So David says "Oh I'll do the video, sir" because he hates writing, doesn't like tests. And so sees doing the video as the easiest way of doing it. He doesn't understand that involves writing the script and getting to grips with the video equipment and getting people organised to be in the right place and right time in order to do it. So after the first interval where we're doing the signposting, how far have you got, what progress you're making? I've had some difficulties with the camera, you can imagine the excuses, which would be trotted out. And we get to the end, and David hasn't got a project, he hasn't got anything to show. So whilst there is options, we can build options in a bit of creativity, we have to be careful that the pupils are aware of the consequences of the choices that they make.

Simon Currigan: 21:11

And I guess as well, because our pressure of time and just the quantity of content teachers have to deliver, we've often stripped those choices right back just to get through everything, what we need to do is actually give them the skills to execute on those choices. Plan ahead, how to think about those consequences, know that I need to do a and b before I get to c.

Kevin Hewitson: 21:31

Yeah, that's right. And if we don't do it, how can we expect pupils to make good choices later on in life? It's critical for relationship, isn't it? You know, making the right choices? You know, do you stay an extra hour at the pub and have another pint? Or do you go home?

Simon Currigan: 21:45

Okay, so we've looked at power, we've looked at belonging, and we looked at choice. Finally, F in your framework stands for fun. Can you give me an example of how using fun has helped you improve classroom relationships and the behaviour in the classroom as a result?

Kevin Hewitson: 21:59

Firstly, fun is one of the greatest challenges for teachers a great challenge because they need to associate fun with achievement. And a lot of achievement at the moment is grade level, exam, etc. And these are really alien to learning. So we've got to come back a few steps. And we got to take the time to associate fun with achievement. But teachers are not stand up comics, and neither should they be. But in many ways, lessons are a learning theatre, and we have to remember the elements of fun within theatre. Why'd you go to the theatre, you got to be entertained, to be engaged? Well, we want the engagement aspect of that, don't we, as teachers, another warning, unless the learner is meeting their need for fun within the lesson with you and with the subject content, then there's an increased possibility that they will search for it elsewhere. We need to have that sense of fun met, especially when we are trying to engage something where we might be nervous or anxious. How individuals will respond to a lack of fun will vary. Fun is often the best reason we have for doing something. So my question would be why leave it out of learning. By mentioned about this challenging group, I got given. Eighteen pupils who were excluded from lessons, and were given to me to do my thing with. When I went into the classroom to meet them, they physically turned their chairs around to face the back wall away from me, and made it very clear that they weren't going to talk to me at all. So they refuse to write, they refused to do anything. Quiet disobedience, which should have the added element of respect for me, I suppose, in a way because they didn't kick off. So I had to find a way of engaging with them. One day, I went in with some plain paper and started doing some folding. And one person asked me what I was doing. I told them that we had an agreement, they did what they did, I did what I did, and we didn't interfere with each other and everything was fine. But they persisted and asked me what I was doing. So I said, Well, why don't you come over, bring your chair up. And I'll show you so I went back to the beginning, started the exercise, give them a piece of paper. Before long I had the whole class. Well they didn't know what they were making, but they were following along. When we got towards the end, it dawned on them that we were making a rather complicated origami aeroplane. You can see them what we're going to do now? And so somebody threw one and then looked to see if they got into trouble and he didn't. So somebody else threw one and so we had everybody throwing aeroplanes around the classroom. So you know, building that element of fun in, eventually broke that barrier down. And we had beginning of building relationship Yeah, why leave the fun out of learning?

Simon Currigan: 24:33

I'd just like to take a pause for a moment and say that if you're finding this podcast useful, then you're going to love what we've got waiting for you in our inner circle programme. The inner circle is your one stop shop for all things behaviour. It's a comprehensive platform filled with videos, resources and behaviour inspiration to get you unstuck with classroom behaviour. We've got training resources on de escalation, supporting kids with anxiety support strategies for conditions like autism, ADHD, and PDA. practical ways of helping pupils deal with strong emotions, assertive behaviour management techniques for managing the whole class and setting out your classroom environment for success. Resetting behaviour with tricky classes and more. Our online videos walk you through practical solutions step by step. Just like Netflix. You can turn an inner circle subscription on or off whenever you need to. With no minimum contract. Plus, You can now get your first seven days of inner circle for just one pound. Get the behaviour answers and you've been looking forward today with inner circle visit www.beaconschoolsupport.co.uk and click on the inner circle picture near the top of the homepage for more information. Kevin, we have only scratched the surface of your framework. If you're a teacher, a school leader listening to this podcast, what's the first step you can take to start using your PB CF framework, please be child friendly. How can we start using that process in our own classrooms?

Kevin Hewitson: 26:10

Teachers can and must model PBCF. Teachers must be willing to talk about their learning challenges and setbacks. Being the expert all the time makes you less approachable, kids been in awe of you, they have to see that they can aspire to that as well. And if you are showing them and demonstrating you have anxiety, you have stresses, you have concerns you've failed, you've made poor choices, then by demonstrating that to them in your day to day teaching and interaction with them, you'll be instantly employing PBCF. That's step one. Step two, you have to begin to see behaviour as a symptom of need. So instead of responding instinctively, to the behaviour, you know, be quiet, sit down, don't do that. Where's your homework, you're in detention for not doing your homework, not doing this, etc. Just have that quiet internal moment and say to yourself, why are they behaving like this, what could be sitting behind that? And you do that by having a conversation with pupils about how they feel when they're learning, and you encourage them to interpret their feelings as well. So they begin to understand how those feelings impact their engagement and their learning needs. And finally, this is so important. As soon as teachers stop being learners, they forfeit the right to be teachers, teachers should always remain learners. And you have to take on a challenge that pushes yourself outside of your comfort zone. And by doing so you reconnect with the learning process. Many teachers have reached the level of mastery, especially in their subject, you are a long way from the pupils just at the beginning or partway through that journey. And you might have just forgotten what it was like. So yeah, that's how you can build PBCF into your daily life.

Simon Currigan: 28:02

And how can listeners find out more about your book?

Kevin Hewitson: 28:05

If you can't reach them? You can't teach them? Well, first of all, I do emphasise that it's written as a learning journal. And it's something I hope that we can build a community of interest around where we can use as a focal point to share ideas. The book is available from critical publishing. critical publishing website, do a search for them, you'll find it, it's in all usual places as well, Amazon, etc, you can find out details on my own website, which is www.ace-d.co.uk. The ACE - D, by the way, is short for Advocating Creativity in Education, which is the company I set up to try and you know, as a vehicle to promote these ideas. You can email me directly, Kevin@ace-d.co.uk. You can explore my blog, which is 4c3d, so 4c3d, that's the word press blog. And my Twitter handle is@4c3d2.

Simon Currigan: 29:11

And we'll also drop direct links to the book in the show description. Right last question, Kevin. And we asked this of all of our guests who's the key figure this influenced you? Or what's the key book that you've read? That's had the biggest impact on your approach to working with kids?

Kevin Hewitson: 29:26

First of all, there's no one book. It's amazing where you can get your inspiration from I mentioned the pieces of the jigsaw at the beginning. So you can imagine. But there was one person and he met me the day before I started teaching. So he was the first teacher in the department who said hello when I turned upon that teacher training day before the pupils come back. And John took me under his wing. John remained an unofficial mentor throughout my teaching career, and even in life up to the point of his death. I didn't realise how much John had influenced me till I came to do his eulogy. And I sat down and realised that John had 12 rules, many of which were unspoken, but some are spoken. Although they all refer to teaching and learning. They're very metaphorical, too. So if I've got time, I'll read your John's 12 rules, one, set your stall out and be ready before you make a start. Two, If you're going to pick something up, Know where you're going to put it down. And I'll just say mentioned quickly, you're going to build a relationship with pupils know where you want to take it. There is no point in struggling. Remember the Egyptians don't make things difficult for yourself. A blunt tool is dangerous. So don't go blundering into something, think. Always ask questions to elicit the least number of responses. And I was reminded about that when I watched a teacher ask who's got a pencil and 25 out of 30 kids said "me". What she really wanted to know is who didn't have the pencil. So always work out what you want to know, before you ask the question. Just because it's broken, doesn't mean it cannot be mended. Think about that in terms of relationships with pupils. Using or having something is not the same as owning it. You're just looking after it. A lesson has a beginning, a middle and an end, when you are leading it. But other times, let the students get on with it. When you've got it organised, somebody else will use it. Get it home first, and then decide what you're going to do with it. And rule 12, which I've already mentioned, always have a project on the go. There was a 13th rule. I wasn't sure whether John knew the rule. But it was certainly known by people who knew job. And that was, if you don't know what to do with it, give it to John. Now, when John died, he had no grass and five lawn mowers. He was the sort of person you'd pass things on to always be approachable to nobody away, and all this help if you can. And I think that's a very good rule to end on.

Simon Currigan: 31:55

Kevin, you given us a lot to think about?.Thank you for being on the podcast,

Kevin Hewitson: 31:59

My absolute pleasure, Simon.

Emma Shackleton: 32:02

Okay, so the four parts of Kevin's framework again, are PBC F, power, belonging, choice, and fun, it makes perfect sense. And if you want to know more about improving your classroom management, we've got a completely free download that goes with this episode, called the classroom management score sheet. Inside the score sheets, you'll find a list of 37 factors that have an impact on classroom management,

Simon Currigan: 32:31

the score sheet is a list of things that you're clearly doing or not doing. Think of it as a clear roadmap to improve your presence in the classroom. It's based on 1000s of observations that Emma and I have conducted between us. So you know, it's based on sound classroom practice.

Emma Shackleton: 32:48

And if you're supporting a colleague with their classroom management, it can help to make your feedback and action points even more clear and objective.

Simon Currigan: 32:56

It's totally free, get it now by going to www.beaconschoolsupport.co.uk Clicking on the free resources option in the menu, and you'll find it near the top of the page. It's completely free. So get it today, and I'll also drop a link in the episode description.

Emma Shackleton: 33:11

Next week, we're going to give you a step by step process for getting a really effective training schedule around kids emotional and behavioural needs in place in your school. And it's going to include a few elements that we often see schools missing out. So listen to next week's episode to find out what they are.

Simon Currigan: 33:31

Of course, the easiest and best way of catching that is to subscribe to the show, just open your podcast app now. Find the subscribe button and give it a friendly poke that will tell your app to automatically download and save new episodes as they're released like magic. Apparently, there are elves inside your phone that make it happen.

Emma Shackleton: 33:50

If you find today's podcast useful, why not be a great mate and recommend it to one friend. You could either send them a message or simply use the share button in your podcast app. And then other teachers and school leaders can find the show and start getting the help they need to support the children in their classrooms. That's all for today. We hope you've enjoyed this episode, and we look forward to seeing you next week. Goodbye for now.

Simon Currigan: 34:15

Bye