Therese Hoyle: 0:44

The schools that are successful and working. Everybody's working together to make lunchtime a successful time and that they know that the impact of, if lunchtimes don't work, then we lose good teaching and learning time. So when I start speaking to schools, what often I'll hear is that they have behaviour problems outside, children aren't cooperating, lunchtime supervisors are shouting at children. Oh, I always say if lunchtime supervisors are shouting at children, then they're disempowered and they don't have behaviour management skills. So actually, that's a reflection on us, to actually work with them and train them.

Simon Currigan: 1:18

Welcome to the school behaviour secrets podcast. I'm your host, Simon Currigan. My co host is Emma Shackleton and we're obsessed with helping teachers, school leaders, parents, and of course students. When classroom behaviour gets in the way of success. We're going to share the tried and tested secrets to classroom management, behavioural special needs, whole school strategy and more all with the aim of helping your students reach their true potential. Plus, we'll be letting you eavesdrop on our conversations with thought leaders from around the world. So you'll get to hear the latest evidence based strategies before anyone else. This is the school behaviour secrets podcast. Hi there. My name is Simon Currigan and welcome to the latest episode of school behaviour secrets. We're broadcasting exclusively from behaviour towers, you'll find it just next door to detention towers, which is really dragging the neighbourhood ambience down not to mention what it's done to the property prices. And you know, it's funny. You just keep seeing the same kids queued up outside as if they're not learning anything from their experience. I'm here with my co host, Emma Shackleton. Hi, Emma.

Emma Shackleton: 2:24

Hi, Simon.

Simon Currigan: 2:25

Emma, I'd like to start this week show by asking What's your favourite team game and why?

Emma Shackleton: 2:31

Ah, okay, that's an easy one for me as I was lucky enough to spend five years playing competitive roller derby. I absolutely loved that feeling of being part of a team and working on a shared goal together. There was so many highs and lows. What's your favourite team game Simon? And why do you ask?

Simon Currigan: 2:50

My favourite team game I used to play a lot at school was football because it really is a team game. And scoring a goal really is just not the result of the shooters individual skill at the end. But it's the build up and the work that the team is putting together. I'm asking because this week we're sharing my interview with Therese Hoyle, which is focused on improving people behaviour at lunchtime through playground games. And one of the things that comes out of her interview is if you want your initiative, any initiative to have a whole school impact, it has to be a team effort you need buy in from your teaching staff, your leadership team, your pupils and your parents. So it's not just about training the supervisors at lunchtimes. It's about how those games and ideas are promoted in the classroom, the status given to supervisors by senior managers, how their work is promoted to parents and so on. And she shares some really simple practical ideas for embedding those changes are making them successful, whether your initiative is around lunchtime, or any other area of school life.

Emma Shackleton: 3:50

But before we press play on that interview, I've got a favour to ask from our listeners. Please, could you share this episode with one or two colleagues that you know so that the kids in their classrooms can get the help that they need to, all you need to do is open your podcast app, hit the share button and send a direct link by email, messenger or however you like to communicate with your friends. And now here's Simon's interview with Therese Hoyle.

Simon Currigan: 4:18

I'd like to welcome our guest Therese Hoyle to the show today, Therese supports primary schools to dramatically improve the quality of day to day play times and lunchtimes with the aim of improving kids behaviour engagement and social emotional well being. She has over 25 years experience in education, and has worked as a teacher, educational consultant, and has supported over 495 schools and organisations. She's one of the UK's leading training providers on playtime and lunchtime programmes with her 'How to be a lunchtime supervisor superhero workshop'. And he's also the author of the book 101 playground games, amongst others, Therese, welcome to the show.

Therese Hoyle: 5:00

Hi, Simon. Thank you. Delighted to be here.

Simon Currigan: 5:04

So let me start with a question Therese. Why do you think that many of the behaviour problems we see in school happen at play time and lunchtime? What's going on?

Therese Hoyle: 5:12

Good question Simon. Personally, I just think that very often, it's not actually bad behaviour at lunchtime, it's often bored behaviour. So it's not enough for children to do. So, It manifests as behaviour problems. And if you know it's about looking at our playground, looking at what some of the pockets of problems are, and seeing, you know, is it because there's not enough for children to do? what is there in the playground for children to do? Are they active with our diversity of opportunities for children out there do all children's needs in terms of play? Are they met, so really evaluating it. Is it a behaviour problem? Or is it the lack of opportunities for children outside? Because actually, when you walk into a playground, you can listen outside the playground, to the tone of the voices of the children. And if children are happy, you will hear happy children by the pitch and tone of their voices. In my experience, when children are active, entertained, having fun, joyful in the playground, and they've got enough to do, you really aren't going to have behavioural problems, because children are happy, they know how to play, they cooperate with each other, they problem solve, and they have fun. So it's really minimal in terms of problems. If that's the case.

Simon Currigan: 6:21

if you're a senior manager listening to this, apart from sort of those shrill voices, if you wanted to go down and look at your playground today or tomorrow, what are the telltale signs might we see that the behaviours we're seeing from kids that are who are bored, rather than something around their emotional skills, social emotional skills, that sort of thing.

Therese Hoyle: 6:40

So we'll see children wandering around the playground with nothing to do and attached to lunchtime supervisors hands. You know, I was working with a school last week, and I ran a circle time with children. And in that I had 18 children I was working with. And out of those 18, there were four or five, who said at lunchtime they didn't have anybody to play with. So that's a really, really high percentage of that particular class weird also see children having disagreements arguments. Often, what I often see when I'm talking with children, too, is they will all want to be leaders in a game. So they don't know how to be leaders and followers. And for one person organise it, and others. So they're all wanting to lead and that lack of cooperation as a group. So those are skills we can actually work with in terms of our classrooms and in our PE lessons, supporting children to be more cooperative, and playing with each other. And I think in terms of senior leaders observing, it can be in terms of observing or lunchtime supervisors, are they working with the children? Or are they chatting in the sidelines? And taking their eyes off the children? So it is about the adults outside. You know, are they supporters in play? Do they know how to encourage play? Do they know how to join in? Are they facilitating the play? Or are they just there to supervise?

Simon Currigan: 7:55

What skills do those lunchtime supervisors or play leaders need to develop themselves in order to run playground games successfully?

Therese Hoyle: 8:03

A lot of them actually don't know the games that we use, will they know the game, so they're not playing the games that we used to play. So very often, what I find is lunchtime supervisors are quite nervous. Some of the lunchtime supervisors I was working with this week lacked confidence, and actually was working with a team couple of days ago. And I asked them, when was the last time they had training, they actually couldn't remember, somebody never had training. So we are putting very ill equipped members of staff into our playgrounds who lack confidence. They haven't been taught any skills, you know, we go to Teacher Training, University to train. So actually, you know, we really need to be thinking about how do we equip with the skills to actually be outside and play with our children. I've teach games on my training days, and staff look at me, like, Oh, my goodness, she's going to make me go outside. And she's going to make me play games. And they look at me like, Oh, she looks like she's going to do that. This week. I said, we're going to go outside and play some games. They looked at me and then when they come back in, they're laughing, joking, said, Oh, my goodness, I had so much fun. I love those games I used to play when I was a child, it just really energises them. And it helps inspire them and helps teach them. You know, remember those games, we've all got play memories, when we were children of things we did that we love games that we used to have so much fun playing, and then they want to go outside, and they want to play those games with the children. So I think we actually have to model the playing of games, we have to reignite the games with our lunchtime supervisors for them to actually want to go out and play. But teach them how to play those games again, because they would have forgotten or maybe they didn't learn them. You know, that can be the other side of actually, maybe they were one of those children who never got taught any of those games. And we all know how games build teams. So when we've got, you know, our lunchtime supervisors, play games have fun together, then you get stronger teams, but you also get stronger teams that children to playing games.

Simon Currigan: 9:55

I think you make such a good point there that our lunchtime supervisors have the kids at what's probably the hardest time of the day in terms of managing behaviour, and yet they're probably the least invested. And as a lunchtime supervisor, it's going to be hard to get fired up about something if you don't feel confident and you haven't had the training and support.

Therese Hoyle: 10:14

Absolutely. And I know this week, there was a lovely lunchtime supervisor. She looked really quite nervous on the training and maybe she'd never been on any training. I don't know. And I learned afterwards I went into action planning meeting with senior leadership team and they said, Well, she actually is a fitness trainer. She goes and works in the gym. And I said oh no, she's got so many skills. She could be working with children during you know, fitness outside with a music box. And you know, that team member we talked about actually how can we support her How can you build your confidence So that actually she's going to feel equipped to go outside and be with the children. And as you say, Simon 20% of the school day, children spend playing. So that's a fifth of the school week. That's actually one day a week where children are playing outside with our lunchtime supervisors. And we're putting our least equipped members of staff to work with children a one day a week. So we really do need to think about prioritising that time of the day, because as you say, to if we don't get that time, the day right, then it impacts teaching and learning time in the afternoon. And most teachers will tell you, they end up sorting out problems after playtime and using good teaching learning time. So it's a really important time in the day to get right.

Simon Currigan: 11:25

So it taught us when we talked to lunchtime supervisors about playground games in their head, they imagine we're asking them to create some sort of Disney World, which is impossible to achieve. How do you get over those kind of preconceptions? How do you make it manageable for lunchtime supervisors and realistic in what is a very busy time of the day?

Therese Hoyle: 11:44

Yeah, it's not that kind of Utopia is it? it's like something that's realistic and fun. I've written my 101 playground games, which came out in June this year. And there's 10 playground games, which are downloadable off my website from the book, which I always teach lunchtime supervisors. So it's like in their toolkit is these are the 10 games that you need to know. So that you can go outside and you can teach those. So actually, they don't need to teach them for that long. Because once they start teaching them, the children remember them when they start playing themselves. And I teach them play leaders to play those games too. So it's not always left up to lunchtime supervisors. Children are really good at organising games, once they know the games. But actually, sometimes lunchtime supervisors need to start those games get children going, and then they can leave them. It works really, really well. If we've got teachers teaching games in PE got lunchtime supervisors, teaching games and all supporting games. I am encouraged lunchtime supervisors to have a teacher game of the week. So every week, one new game is introduced. And that is the game that is encouraged throughout that week. So children learn that game. By the end of the 39 weeks of the school year, they've got 39 games in their toolkit. And lunchtime supervisors have learned 39 games as well. So actually, you know, it's working for everybody,

Simon Currigan: 12:56

Once we've got our children playing these games, what kind of skills do we need to teach them specifically to be able to engage in constructive play without those playground games falling into argument? You've touched on the idea of everyone wants to be the leader, but what are the sorts of social and emotional skills do we need to be actively teaching?

Therese Hoyle: 13:14

So cooperation, isn't it, it's just like, you It's a bit like learning the theory and then doing the know, knowing how to cooperate with each other, knowing that we take turns, knowing that, you know, we've got a home base, knowing we've got a set of rules as well, when we play a game. So it's abiding by rules, which is part of life. In our playground. So I always encourage schools to have that we often have rules inside school, but we don't have them outside in the playground. So children giving us a different set of moral values inside outside. And we also don't talk about those rules with our lunchtime supervisors. So they don't, they don't have the behaviour management systems at all. And so if we've got those rules in place outside, or the code of conduct or the values outside, then those actually work for games as well. So the rules will say, I'm kind, so we're encouraging kindness in our games, I'm honest, so you don't cheat at a game, you know, rules around listening, so you're listening to each other. So it is encouraging the values that we have inside in our school building, that those are exactly the same outside of the playground as well. In all my programmes that I teach children how to do circle time, which is a way to consider inner circle on a weekly basis. They play games, and they have fun, but they learn in that classroom circle, how to be cooperative, that it's okay to make a mistake that we don't laugh at each other when we make mistakes, t at we support each other, that e work together as a team, that we problem solve, you know, we learn how to resolve conflict. I think quite a lot of children struggle with, I've got a problem with a friend, how do I resolve that? it's really hard t, I've discussed this challen e I've got with this person. A d so circle time's a perfect pl ce to teach children skills, how to sort out problems with e ch other and how to be a g od friend. So we model that in he classroom. And then those ski ls get taken out into he playground too, which is rea ly helpf practical. Could you tell us about a school that you've supported and the kind of process you take them through to make playtimes and lunchtimes more successful? Yeah, so when I start speaking to schools, what often I'll hear is that they know that there's behaviour problems outside, children aren't cooperating. They've got some of their lunchtime supervisors, lunchtime supervisors shouting at children. Oh, I always say if lunchtime supervisors are shouting at children, and they're disempowered, and they don't have behaviour management skills, so actually, that's a reflection of us to actually work with them and train them. So first of all, I have a kind of pre meeting with leadership team when we first start working together. I get them to fill out get the teachers to fill out questionnaires with the children and fill out questionnaires about what's Working at lunchtime and play times, what's not working? And so we get to hear their voices on a training day to start with, I work with the senior leadership team at the very beginning of the morning and we create a vision, you know, where did they want to be. And by the end of I usually do two or three days training with schools, and then I work with children. So it's about pupil voice, hearing their voice, you know, what's going on for them. And I teach them games in circle time. So we do circle time, listen to their voice, what's working at play times? what's not working? How they like play times to be what would make a really good play time and lunchtime. It's really important when we're doing a consultation kind of process with lunchtimes and playtime. So children are included at their part of it. It's no good doing unto children, it's not going to work if that's the case, I also talk to them about in the circle time about rules do they have them up outside in the playground? Do they know what they are? Very often children have no idea for any rules outside of the playground, they usually aren't any rules in the playground. And sometimes it's interesting, for one of the schools I was working with this week, they were saying all there's one angry lunchtime supervisor in the playground. So there you know them lunchtime supervisors who are lovely and great skills, and some who are lacking and a few skills too. So all of that comes up in the circle time.

Simon Currigan: 17:00

Just like to take a pause for a moment and say that if you're finding this podcast useful, then you're going to love what we've got waiting for you in our Inner Circle programme. The Inner Circle is your one stop shop for all things behaviour. It's a comprehensive platform filled with videos, resources and behaviour inspiration to get you unstuck with classroom behaviour. We've got training resources on de escalation, supporting kids with anxiety support strategies for conditions like autism, ADHD, and PDA. practical ways of helping pupils deal with strong emotions, assertive behaviour management techniques for managing the whole class, setting out your classroom environment for success resetting behaviour with tricky classes, and more. Our online videos walk you through practical solutions, step by step, just like Netflix, you can turn an Inner Circle subscription on or off whenever you need to, with no minimum contract, plus, you can now get your first seven days of inner circle for just one pound. Get the behaviour answers. And you've been looking forward today with Inner Circle visit www.beaconschoolsupport.co.uk And click on the Inner Circle picture near the top of the homepage for more information.

Therese Hoyle: 18:11

And also I teach them conflict resolution skills, I get them to problem solve if one person's got a problem that we look at as a class how to support that person to and then we also celebrate each other. So it's a lovely kind of problem solving time. And it teaches them skills. We play a lot of games in that time too. And then I go into debriefing stuff around that circle time. And then I go into lunchtime and observe the dining hall look at how much wait time possibly is happening in terms of children queuing up. It's a really difficult time for schools at the moment, we'll have children in bubbles and everything's operating in different ways. That's not going to last forever, because children might be in this bubble forever. It's not great for those kids who are lining up for 10 or 15 minutes. And that was part of their lunchtime. And we also look at how healthy is the food at some schools. Like yesterday, I had an amazing lunch in a school. But a couple of weeks ago, I had a really not very nice lunch. So those are things I think we need to pick up on to also in terms of lunchtime supervisors. Sometimes in the hall, they want the children to be silent. You know, that's not realistic, actually, it's fine if children are talking, that's part of its social time. So look at lunchtimes, how is it working? What's working? Well, what's not working not so well? Obviously, we're going to have a lot of work to do around that area. Post children getting back into dining halls and that more social mix encouraging children to mix again with each other. You know, I think we're going to see a lot of challenges in schools because children haven't been mixing. So there's a lot of social emotional well being work that we've got to do. And then I go into the playground and I observe the playground and do a bit of an audit where I really look at what what is going on outside on the playground. Is football dominating the playground? Is it just a concrete jungle out there? I go into playgrounds and they do they vary so much. Some are amazing a school I was I'd worked with six years ago and they brought me back in because it had a complete change of staff. And what was so lovely they said to me was playtime programme has worked. It's worked for six years, but now we've had a change of staff and we've gone through this COVID time we really want to reinvigorate it again it was just wonderful to go back in because actually did have lots of really good practice. They got table tennis tables, they were doing playing, the teachers were actually outside playing games with the children. Football was dominating a little bit. There wasn't enough equipment outside because they were in their bubbles and they've got rather than having different areas of play them far more restricted. So as we move out of this period, having all the different activity areas in the playground, so that there's opportunities for all children to play. So I suggest, you know, having a quiet area. I suggest something called craze of the week. So they have one activity a week. At the moment Ive actually got supervisors saying to me, what's really interesting, all our classes have got equipment, they've got playback, but it's really interesting that sometimes there's hardly ever any left. And sometimes it's got a lot to do with how they look after the equipment. And there's really when we could put lots of equipment out in the playground, I usually find it gets lost, stolen or broken, it doesn't last. And it is about thinking about teaching children how to use that equipment. But I always suggest one piece of equipment we can that being a craze of the week because children get bored, you know, crazy, something fun, it lasts a short period of time. But if we put everything out, it's just the same every week. So we need play equipment we rotate when we change. And we have different equipment on different weeks. So it's making play fun for everybody. I had a school message me on social media this week, they were just saying, Oh, we've just given our children, pipes, wooden blocks, wheels, and they've been making obstacle course and they've cooperated. They've problem solved. They've worked together as a team. They've worked out how to stop something wobbling, you know, just so gorgeous. When you just see children using all those incredible skills that are life skills, and science. Ive been working with a school, theyve got a pond and we're talking about how can we get somebody outside at lunchtime? You know, all let's get some magnifying glass. The children are fascinated with the pond, let's get them out by the pond, let's get some nets that schools have so many resources. And this school's got a forest school area, but there is no forest school teacher, I just thought, Gosh, this amazing area for children to explore in this area is quite safe. Well, obviously, we have to do a risk benefit kind of assessment. But actually, you know, how can we make that a place that children want to go and I said to this child, Do you ever go in here? And it was just next to the reception playground, It was a Key Stage One playground. o you ever go in here? No.Wou d you like to go in there? he lo ks at me a bit scary, the ay he looked at me. So it looks a bit scary. So I think fo some children, they actually h ven't had access to those areas here, you know, they can explor with a wildlife in that little ooded area, the leaves and twi s and build a pretend bo fire, whatever it is, make dens, there's so much opportunit in a playground. So it's goin into the playground and eval ating you know how it is? And l oking at the children? You kno, are they playing? Well? Ar they having fun? Or are they l oking a bit bored,? and really doing an audit around the playg ound. And then in the aftern on, I work with lunchtime superv sors, it's about getting them to value the skills that they have. A lot of them don't know that t ey've got this wealth of skill that they bring to the team. S I do something called Cr ating identity kit where they think about all the skills tha they have. And then I also l ok at respect for them. S many lunchtime superviso s say children say to them, I don't have to do what you t ll me because you're just a lun htime supervisor. So I work with them. And I always have members f the leadership team in that me ting, because they need to he r the same message that lun htime supervisors are hearing nd be supported. And I always sa, you know, we need to think abo t how we are supporting lunc time supervisors, but also how w're that message that pa ents are hearing, you know, whe e's that message coming from in terms of lunchtime? So it' not from lunchtime supervisors often it is from home, they' e part of the community, par nts don't respect them. So I get us to think about, well, ow can we build respect, put t em in the newsletter, put phot s of them playing with the chi dren, and look at things like you know, when we come into scho ls, often the reception areas, photos of everybody, but somet mes there aren't photos of lunchtime supervisors. And I alw ys before going work with a scho l I'd put the website on lunchtime supervisors on th website. Early this week, I looked at their website, every member of staff was on there. But there was a section for lunchtime supervisors, thei pictures hadn't been uploaded. nd we are human, we make mi takes. We don't get things wrong always in schools and hings get forgotten. But ac ually, we can't afford to orget our lunchtime superviso s because it's the sublimina messages that they're getting And it's really, really impo tant that they feel an equal mem er of the team. So training fo them and regular training. It' not just me coming in o ce. It is actually breaking mee ings with somebody who supports them. And also this school t at I went with, it was actuall amazing. We got the schoo business managers now she as really supporting them was new role for her. But she as really supporting them in t eir role. And she was part of the day I ran too, all day she as with me, and she just started performance management f r lunchtime supervisors. They'v never been performance managed, but they're a member of the scho l team. They want to improve the r skills. So you get to ha e supportive supervisio for them as supportive, online anagement for them. And now afte that I don't go into action pla ning with the senior leaders An then we have a follow up date s well, where we do more game pl ying, I teach the key leaders. A d then at the end of training wi h a school, I do training ith the whole school. So all the staff meeting where every ody's part of because actually lay lunchtime needs to be a who e school way. It's just not an a d on. It is a whole school wa of being. So it's really important for everybody to be

Simon Currigan: 26:07

What would you say is the one core thing that the best schools do, who manage lunchtime successfully that's different to everyone else,

Therese Hoyle: 26:15

That everybody's doing it and it's consistent, that the message is consistent throughout the year. Assembly at the beginning of the year, and all lunchtime supervisors are invited to this. Rules are discussed. And that lunchtime supervisors are included, that they're important, that they're trained, and that teachers and lunchtime supervisors work together. They have similar behaviour management systems, and that play and lunchtimes is part of a school development plan improvement can the schools that are successful are working, everybody's working together to make lunchtimes a successful time and that they know that the impact of if lunchtimes don't work, then we lose good teaching and learning time

Simon Currigan: 26:56

So if you're a teacher or school leader, listening to this podcast, what's the first step you can take to start improving lunchtimes in your school?

Therese Hoyle: 27:04

First of all, think about that 20% of the school day was being really important, and valuing it. And the first things to really think about are how, when was the last time your lunchtime supervisor had any training? It's really important to start valuing them and making sure they're properly trained. And thinking about those baseline things that are important, like your value system, Is it outside? Are children familiar with that? Are the rules outside, the one's you've got inside? Is it the same inside or outside? Do you have a behaviour management system that's similar from inside to outside, under lunchtime supervisors know what that as well? And is there equal access to play opportunities for everybody? Is there something for every child in the school to do? If you've got a quiet child, is there a quiet area where they can sit and read a book? I remember when we lived in New Zealand for six years, and I remember a lady I was working with saying to me. "Oh, New Zealand's very sporty" and she said to me, "my child is not sporty, he does not want to go play cricket or football", which is what they most of them do a play time. She said he just wants to sit quietly with a book. And I think the importance of that is that child wants to feel that that's okay. That's a skill that he has not to feel like he's different and odd and strange to read a book, but actually that, you know, that child's a good reader. He wants to sit with a book and enjoy that over lunchtime and be quiet. And that's okay. So I think we need to look at the diversity inclusion of all children at play time and lunchtime too.

Simon Currigan: 28:32

How can our listeners find out more about your resources and your books and training?

Therese Hoyle: 28:36

They can go to www.theresehoyle.com. So my book 101 playground games came out in June with which is available from Routledge and also on Amazon. I'm really excited about lots of love and hard work into it. So there's obviously 101 games in the book. And there's a free downloadable resource on my website, which has 10 of those games in it. So you can go to my website, www.theresehoyle.com And there's also if you go to the bottom, scroll to the bottom of the page, there's another 10 free games at the bottom of the page from 101 wet playtime games and activities, book two. And if you use the code fly 21, you'll also get 20% off. So do buy that book, particularly I think it's an amazing resource for lunchtime supervisors, and for P.E. So it's a definite resource for that.

Simon Currigan: 29:32

And finally, we ask this of all our guests, who's the key figure that's influenced you? Or what's the key book that you've read, that's had the biggest impact on your approach to working with kids?

Therese Hoyle: 29:43

That is really hard question, because it's quite a few. So it can I have a few. I think actually, when I was a young teacher working in London, I had an amazing head teacher, who was very good at delegating and trusting us. And I was young, and I had lots of great ideas. I was a year two class teacher and I could see that there were problems at lunchtime, some play times in our school. And, you know, I was going to moving into leadership. And one of the roles she gave me was to develop her lunch times and our play times and the school it was what I wanted to do, because I could see there was a problem. So I basically was given this amazing opportunity by a head who trusted me to develop our play times and our lunchtimes and it was really from then that I develop the programmes and she then, she she let me go out and work with other schools and develop their playtime, lunchtimes too and circle time. She got me to teach everybody in our school how to do circle time, too. So I was in a really fortunate position to have an amazing head who believed in me and I think You know, that's really important in education to be in a school with a good head who actually believes in you to and allows you to flourish.

Simon Currigan: 30:51

Give her a shout out what's her name? Therese yourve shared so many practical strategies and ideas

Therese Hoyle: 30:52

Her name is Jane Cook. And she used to work for Honeywell Infant School in London. And she is a retired head now. Second choice will be George Robinson, who was one of the founders of circle time with Barbara Maines. And he was he person I went to. I've said it several times, Jenny Mosley, nd George and Barbara and work w th them all. And he just was a he had a publishing house cal ed lucky duck, but he was just, he was a man who modelled what He taught. So I have huge resp ct for him because he was v ry congruent and very in integr ty with who he was as a person that I'm sure our listeners can start using straightaway with their own kids in their own schools. Thank you for being on the show. Thank you. Simon, this opportunity is lovely and for inviting me on thank you so much.

Emma Shackleton: 31:44

Interesting. So it was really fascinating to hear to raise his approach to getting the whole school on board to make sure her intervention is a success. It actually reminded me of what Janine Dodds talks about in the episode about restorative practice, it's so important to get the whole school buy in to gather momentum whenever you're trying to get a new initiative going.

Simon Currigan: 32:08

And if you want to know more about Therese's books or programmes like How to be a Lunchtime Supervisor Superhero workshop or the positive playtime masterclasses, well take advantage of that discount code Ill put direct links in the show notes.

Emma Shackleton: 32:21

And if you're working with pupils who believe the world is out to get them, and they overreact to even the smallest problem, then you might be interested in one of the resources we have available. It's called How to help pupils reframe confrontation, and it contains a resource pack and training video, and that will give you everything you need to help your students react proportionately when they have a disagreement on or off the playground. That resource is included as part of our inner circle programme, where you can also learn from modules such as how to de escalate like a champion, how to minimise low level disruption, and how to use mindful moments to help students regulate their emotions. And there are over 30 other modules there too,

Simon Currigan: 33:09

You can get a seven day trial of inner circle for just one pound, head to www.beaconschoolsupport.co.uk Scroll down and click on the inner circle option to find out more. Also, if you're a school, you can also unlock all our inner circle training for all of your staff for just 23.99 a month.

Emma Shackleton: 33:24

And next week, we'll be exploring why parenting programmes don't work and how to change them or adapt them so that you get success with the parents in your school.

Simon Currigan: 33:34

So make sure you hear that episode, open up your podcast app and tap the subscribe button or the Follow button as it's now called in Apple podcasts. And your app will then automatically download every episode for you so you don't miss a thing. And why not celebrate taking action in a way that's going to benefit both you your colleagues and your students. You could mark the occasion by laying out a length of sticky tape and attaching small dried fruits to it things like raisins, sultana's even the occasional peanuts. And then when the glue dries, place it on your garden table and bingo not only do you have a brilliant assault course with garden insects, like ants or ladybirds, you've also got a very attractive conversation piece for when the neighbor's pop round, a real win win.

Emma Shackleton: 34:17

And last of all, if you've got a friend or colleague who you think would find this week's interview useful, don't forget to share it with them. So have a brilliant week and we'll see you next time on school behaviour secrets. Bye

Simon Currigan: 34:30

Bye